AVS Historical Persons | Stanley Goldfarb - 2009

Stanley Goldfarb - 2009

Oral History Interview with Stan Goldfarb

Interviewed by Paul Holloway, November 9, 2009
HOLLOWAY: Good afternoon. My name is Paul Holloway. I'm a member of the AVS History Committee. I'm here today at the 56th International Symposium in San Jose, California on Monday November 9, 2009. It is my pleasure today to interview Stan Goldfarb, a person of historical note for the Society. So welcome, Stan, and thank you for agreeing to the interview. Could you begin by giving us your date and place of birth?

GOLDFARB: I was born and raised in New York. Date of birth, January 12, 1934. 

HOLLOWAY: So you're just a young whippersnapper! How about giving us a little bit of your early background, education, and the reason for getting into vacuum.

goldfarb.JPGGOLDFARB: Being born and raised in the Bronx is education alone! After elementary school, I went to Bronx High School of Science. Much later, the Alumni Committee got a hold of me and they came out with a book; I went there with a lot of very interesting people (including Bobby Darin and Leonard Klienrock who was one of the inventors of DARPAnet, the thing that grew into the internet). After Bronx Science I went to CCNY; that's sometimes called CUNY, which is the City University of New York, but when I went there it was the City College of New York. I graduated in roughly '57 as a chemical engineer, and I don't think I've every worked as a chemical engineer my entire life. Kleinrock also went to CCNY, but in the EE Dept.

HOLLOWAY: Well, the goal of the bachelor's degree is education; I think the most important thing to have.

GOLDFARB: Yes. I don't know if I should put this in here, but I dropped out of college somewhere around my sophomore year, maybe junior year, and decided to shoot pool for a living! [Laughter]

HOLLOWAY: Made good money at it too, I suspect!

GOLDFARB: Well, you know, living in the Bronx in a low rent project, we didn't have a whole lot of money, so high school, as well as college, was free, not as it is today; and making some money on the side, shooting pool, looked pretty good, and I decided hey, that looks even better than going to college. But after six months I saw my friends continue on at Columbia and elsewhere for pre-dent and pre-med, and I didn't like the forecast of my future compared to theirs. So I went back to school, went back to night school and then back into day school, and finally graduated.

HOLLOWAY: That's not all that unusual. People do take sojourns like that, try to understand what they want to do, and come back to the realization that education is really critical.

GOLDFARB: Yes it is, and I still think it's critical. Anyway, my first job after college was in Dayton, Ohio, at WADC, the Wright Air Development Center. I was an engineer working for the government; so the Civil Service, I think at GS 5 or 7 or 9 or something like that. I was there for three years, and that's sort of how I got into vacuum. Since I was the new guy on the block, they did what I'm sure everybody does, gives you all the stuff that nobody else wants. So I had wonderful responsibilities, including strange things like an instrument panel vibrator. That was a little invention, about the size of a thick pen, that had a wobble and spun around and shook. They put that on the back of the instrument panel on an airplane, and the reason was that, before then, we used to have propeller driven airplanes, so everything shook like crazy. When the jets came out, they're so nice and smooth that there wasn't enough shaking. Well the problem is that on the old instruments-we didn't have any digitals-the needle would stick, and after several pilots landed the airplanes, with broken instruments on the instrument panel, you ask, "How did this break?" Well, what happens is that the pilot doesn't want to take his hands off the controls, so he kicks the altimeter with the heel of his foot to make sure that it's reading right. So they invented the vibrator, and I became the project engineer on those vibrators.
I also had lighting, which was anything to do with vision inside the airplane. A warning panel, for example; so if the airplane was coming down too low and they didn't put the wheels down, the warning light would come on. Well the pilot isn't always watching the lights, so we added sounds to it, so this became my responsibility, and it was a pretty tight one.
One of the things I remember most in terms of contribution to society in general happened there in my first or second year out of college. Up until I got there, all pilots, before they would get into the airplanes, would put on red goggles, go into a ready room and dark adapt, and then they would get into the airplanes. I always wondered why that was, so I tried to find out. I went back to an aero-medical laboratory study that was done in England, where they determined the dark adaptation in the rods and the cones (1) and the relative responses. It's like when you walk into a movie, you can't see until you become dark adapted. But if you previously had a pair of red glasses on, you would still be able to see around you, but when you walk into the movie you would immediately be dark adapted because the cones haven't been affected. So after reading the study, I realized that they didn't do the study correctly. I realized that the instrument panel itself was a glare source; even though it was in red, it was a constant glare source. So I did a couple of studies of my own; I inherited a little laboratory (which is why I took that particular job), I decided that it didn't really matter, the dark adaptation and the red goggles. As long as the pilot would have his instrument panel on, even though it was all red lit, he still had a problem seeing outside because of glare from the instrument panel itself. They had tested: exposed to red light, turn off the lights, see how well you see. That's the way the testing is done. I said leave the red lights on in the field of view and see how well you can see; and whether it was white lit or red lit, as long as the intensity was the same, normalized to the eye response, there was almost no difference! Now, there was a small enough difference that, in the case of rescue [missions], where they actually do turn the panel lights out-even though they're dark adapted, they turn all the panel lights out and they're flying with no instruments, because they can't see them. They can see the horizon as a dark glow, and if they're looking for say somebody in the water at night, they need all the dark adaptation they can get. So for that case, I told them that good dark adaptation is good, that it helps.
And the only other application that the white light wasn't good for is landing an airplane at night on a carrier. I didn't want to take any chances with that one. That's the most impossible thing I've ever heard of! How those guys do it in the daytime, I don't know; at night it's ridiculous, so you don't want to lose any vision whatever! And they can't turn the lights off; they really need to see their instruments. But today, whenever you get on an airplane at night, even on a commercial airplane, look inside the cockpit, if they let you, and you'll see that there is warm lighting in white light. Instruments have a band on it: if you're in the green it's good; if you're in the red it's bad; if you're in the yellow, caution. But at night, if it's all red light, those signals go away because it is either red or black or gray, and you can't tell green; no, there's nothing. White light gave a more natural presentation to everything. In some of the instruments, where the ground is green and the sky is blue, you don't know if it's upside down in red light! So now everything is white lit, throughout the Air Force as well as commercial planes, and that was due to me. That's one of the things I'm most proud of that I've ever done, ever!
So I stayed there two years. One of the things I worked on, in addition to all these others, was one of the AMAs [2] needed to buy a bunch of leak detectors, helium mass spectrometer leak detectors. Somehow or other the specs ended up in the Instrument Branch of the Flight Control Lab, but nobody there knew what it was or wanted to have anything to do with it! They said, "Okay, you're the new guy, here it is." Now I had heard of a mass spectrometer because, in Chemical Engineering courses, the mass spectrometer comes up. But the interesting thing is, I went back to my book, because now all of a sudden I had the responsibility, I went back to my text; but there's nothing in the text that says that the mass spectrometer has to operate in a vacuum. It shows the ion formation, showed the electrons, showed the ions going down to a magnet. Said nothing at all about vacuum!

HOLLOWAY: Missed the critical step!

GOLDFARB: Who knew, right? So now, all of a sudden, I am the Air Force's expert in helium mass spectrometry leak detection! There was an old standard dating back to the beginning of leak detectors, which wasn't that much earlier, and it needed to be updated. I knew, at that time, all the current suppliers, CEC, Veeco, Bendix and GE [3]. Bendix had a radio frequency mass spectrometer that they had built into a leak detector. Those were the four I remember. I finally redid the military standard, which I haven't seen for ages. We went out for bids and bought a dozen leak detectors, and it turns out we bought the ones from Veeco.
About that time I was ready to leave Dayton, Ohio. You've got to understand, I'm from the Bronx-never had any money in my life.

HOLLOWAY: Never seen a cow before. [Laughter]

GOLDFARB: Well that's true, except in pictures. But here I am, now suddenly money in my pocket. I've got an actual job that's paying something, and I am in Dayton, Ohio-there's nothing to spend your money on in Dayton, Ohio. I swear they turn the lights out in Dayton at ten o'clock. I remember leaving the movies with my wife and two friends on a Saturday, and of course like we always did back in New York, after the movies you go for coffee and cake-that was the routine. We came out, it was eleven o'clock, wanted to go for coffee and cake. Nothing nowhere in downtown Dayton, Ohio was open. I found a hotel and I walked into the hotel. It was five minutes to eleven. They closed the coffee shop in the hotel at eleven-all of the chairs were on the table. So that's why I left. That was just unbelievable.

HOLLOWAY: Tell me why they were using mass spec leak detectors at the Air Force.

GOLDFARB: It's interesting, I'm not sure I can answer that question. I think that one of the tests that they do when they have to fix an aircraft instrument, and most of the aircraft instruments are hermetically sealed, they have to retest it. I have never seen them actually re-use them, but I think that's one of the applications, because they have to repair instruments on a regular basis, and they're sealed when they come from the factory. Now later I found out that they use mass spec leak detectors on helicopter blades. I didn't realize it but they're hollow and when they evacuated them, and it turned out one of the blades-and it might even be three or four depending on the copter-went dead and filled up with air; the imbalance in the weight of the air in one of them compared to the other would throw the balance off, and so they had to leak test helicopter blades. Since I found that out, I have flown in a helicopter only once in my whole life!
They used to test helicopter blades in a vertical wind tunnel right next to my building, and they test them to destruction every day. So every day we heard a cannon shot go off, which scared the heck out of me for the first couple of weeks while everybody else in the laboratory was just sitting around going, "Oh, there goes another one," and I'm jumping out of my seat. So I went over to Materials to find out what they were doing over there, and he told me how they test these blades. I said, "So how is it if a blade breaks?" He said, "The helicopter falls out of the sky." "It doesn't auto-gyrate down?" He said, "That's only in science-fiction. They fall out of the sky like a rock!" I've never been on a helicopter except for once in Hawaii: I went to see a volcano, and I didn't like it and I was scared the whole time.
After I left Wright Lab, I was invited by one of the founders of Veeco to join the company because their sales manager, a man named Bill Meoli, I guess said good things about what I was doing in re-doing the military spec, and I guess he liked my personality or whatever, but he recommended that the company hire me. I got a phone call that lasted about half an hour-this was the time when long-distance phone calls cost a lot of money-from Albert Nerken. Al Nerken called me, and spent half an hour trying to convince me to come work for Veeco. But growing up in New York, the son of a fellow that went through the Depression, working for the government was good. So everybody, all my cousins, my sister, said "Good to work for the government; teachers, Post Office, whatever, work for the government". It was safe. Because the Depression in '29 was terrible, and I was born in '34. So I said "small company ...I don't think I'm going to do that, and so I took a job with Westinghouse working in electroluminescence, which was also one of the things that I had responsibility for, back in the mid to late '50s.

HOLLOWAY: This is powder electroluminescence?

GOLDFARB: Yes, sure; we made a slurry. That's why I was in the lab division, we had all kinds of phosphors to make fluorescent lamps out of, and so they had these sulfide phosphors and various dopants that we could put in, and then making a thin film out of a transparent coating was tin oxide, which wasn't a vacuum process, and then laying down with a slurry of zinc sulfide with a knife edge. That was really nice, the whole lamp division. I lasted there nine months and then they fired me. [Laughter]

HOLLOWAY: Job security, right!

GOLDFARB: So now here I am in New Jersey with a wife and a kid and no job. So I called up Veeco and I said, "Hey, remember me?" Yeah. "Still interested?" They said yes, and they gave me a job offer, which was a very interesting offer. I thought I was going to go into engineering because that's what I was doing. Well, Bill Meoli, who was the sales manager, said, "We'd like to see you in sales." I said, "I'm not a salesman. What do I know about sales?" "I think you'd make a good salesman." I said, "I don't know..." "No really, come on, try it. Look," he said, "if you don't like it, we want you in the company, we'll put you in research, we'll put you in engineering. You know, give it a shot!" I gave it a shot and I loved it. I was a salesman in the field for two years. I refused to be called a salesman-this is how bad a salesman I was. I insisted I be called a field engineer, which is what our cards said. And I was an engineer working in the field. And it wasn't until I was there almost two years when I decided it was a profession, and I'd better study it. If I'm going to do this, then I want to study selling, not just the engineering part. So I went at it just like a college course on my own, studied selling, and I did love it.
But eventually they brought me back in as the training director. They created a department for me. The company was growing; it was a very small company back then. I think we were doing something around $5 million a year, which was not a lot of money. So it was a small company, but it was growing.

HOLLOWAY: What year was it when you first started?

GOLDFARB: I joined them in 1961 approximately, plus or minus a year. That's when I joined the AVS. When I came back in from the field, they had just moved to a facility in Plainview [4], which is still there; that was probably around '64, possibly '65, and I was the training director of this new group, the training department. I wrote the training manual for leak detection. They had also come up with a mass spectrometer, a GA3; it was a magnetic sector instrument, so I had to teach that as well as the mass spectrometry that goes along with leak detection. And we did have evaporators, and we had vacuum systems. So I wrote the book on all of these things-they had nothing, of course to go on-and I taught all the new hires, all of the engineering type new hires within Veeco. So all the sales guys had to be engineers, and all the engineers that they hired and the research guys had to go through my course. So I had a lot of people like Ed Braun. Ed was the president of Veeco for the past, oh I don't know, ten or twenty years, and we were in the field selling together, and then he went on. Interesting. Unusual that anyone would stay with one company his entire career.
But Al Nerken was my mentor. Al was not only my mentor technically, he was the guy I looked up to probably more than anyone in the field that I've ever met. Everyone that I knew called Al "gentleman". That's the preface or the description that they've always given him. He never got along, by the way, with his partner; I don't know if anybody knows this, but there were two founders of Veeco: Al Nerken and Frank Raible. Because we're being recorded I can't say what I'd like to say about Frank Raible. But Al Nerken was the complete opposite, and they didn't get along. In fact when they built the building in Plainview, Frank Raible, who was the president, worked at one end of the building. It was a very big building. Al Nerken's office was at the complete other end of the building, and Al had his own staircase so they would never have to meet. They did at lunchtime; they would play bridge on opposite sides, and sometimes they would actually play bridge as partners.
I was a bridge enthusiast during college. Let me tell you, the pool thing, when I decided to go back to school, it was an epiphany. Actually, I really did see the future, and I saw my friends and I saw me ten years from now, and I didn't like it. But I was in the pool room when that happened to me. Charlie was the name of the guy that owned the pool room. I walked over to Charlie and I handed him my pool stick, and I said, "This is yours. Give me my books." Because I would always leave the house with my schoolbooks, because my parents never knew that I dropped out of college! So I'd leave the house with my books, give them to Charlie, he'd put them behind the desk, give me my pool cue and I'd shoot pool. So I gave him my cue just like I was going home, and I said, "I'm not coming back," and I never was back. I vowed not to gamble, because gambling was a big part of my shooting pool. But I vowed "that's it, I'm not gambling anymore, and I'm not shooting pool anymore". Well, now I have a pool table in my house, but that didn't happen until I retired. I don't play for money, and I'm nowhere near as good as I used be. It's not like riding a bike; you really do fade. 
Then I learned bridge in college, and I became a pretty good bridge player. Not a master's kind of bridge, but good in Duplicate. So here I am, and they invited me to join their game up in the executive dining room because one of the players that they normally played with was out. So I sat down, with a lot of trepidation, and I played with one of the guys that was there against Al Nerken and Frank Raible, who were playing as partners. And I can remember one hand came around, and Frank Raible bids 6 Diamonds, and I said, "Double." You know that means, "You ain't going to make it. I'm going to put you down, and it's going to really cost." So Frank Raible puts his cards down on the table, looks over at me, and says, "You don't play boss bridge?" And it wasn't a joke. [Laughter]
But I stayed in touch with Al Nerken for a long, long time. When they were giving out the Al Nerken Award about three or four years ago in Denver, I got permission to find his wife. Unfortunately she had passed away, so I found his daughter, who I'd never met, and I got Al Nerken's daughter to do the presentation at the AVS in Denver [5].

HOLLOWAY: I remember that. That was very nice. That was a good touch.

GOLDFARB: When Al passed away, I wrote him a letter on his deathbed. I was talking to his wife, and I sent the letter. She called me afterwards and she said she read the letter that I wrote to Al, and that it brought tears to his eyes. Some people don't even realize how much they influence somebody else. I wanted him to know that, because he really did.
Anyway, so that's Veeco.

HOLLOWAY: So you went from the Training Department and finished up...?
GOLDFARB: Oh yes, at Veeco I was in the Training Department. I saw it was a dead-end job and I didn't want to stay in that forever, so after doing that, I hired my replacement, trained him, and he turned out to be good. His name was John Poturny. He was very good at what he did, but I lost track of him a long time afterwards. They moved me into applications engineering-again, there was no department-so I created the applications engineering department, which gave me a nice laboratory to play around with and have a lot of fun with. Eventually I became...I don't know what the title is .... but Veeco did a deal with Vacuum Generators, a company in England, and we were their representatives in the United States for several years, and we sold their Auger electron spectrometers and things like LEED and Auger. They even had a new device at that time, a microchannel plate. Turns out, that was some interesting stuff, too. Because it came out of England, they had this microchannel plate that they were selling commercially. Well, Ft. Belvoir in Virginia, NIGHT Vision Lab, had also developed microchannel plates for night vision work. It was classified, so I had never heard of it. You know, I used to call on John Sullivan there. John Sullivan (later joined MKS and rose to Executive VP of Technology), worked with Dr. Buser [6] at Ft. Belvoir. John had called Veeco saying he was having a problem. He had this thermocouple gauge on a system they were trying to get down to UHV, but they had a lot of trouble with the thermocouple gauge accuracy. And I said, "Accuracy?" So he shows me what they did to a Veeco thermocouple gauge. He put a mirror behind the needle, so he made a new gauge to eliminate parallax on the thermocouple gauge! I didn't know how to tell him-I really didn't know how to tell him! [Laughter] So I figured he finally got that that was not going to be a winner.
But that's where I met John. And it was in there (although I don't know if John was involved) that the US had developed these night vision goggles, which were considered classified. Well I'm now selling them because they came out of England, and I have no idea that they were classified in the US, but I finally found out, so we had to take them out of the catalogue. But the first application that came to my mind was a field ion microscope invented by Dr. Erwin Mueller at Penn State. Once while visiting his lab, he showed me a foam ball mockup of a tungsten crystal he'd hung on the ceiling of his office. He painted the edges and corners with fluorescent paint. When he turned the lights off, the image I saw matched the photos he had previously shown me taken in his lab. That just blew me away. I saw how he was imaging them, and I thought that the microchannel plate would be a really big improvement, so I was up there trying to sell that. I really don't remember how successful I was at doing it, but eventually I knew we couldn't deliver-we were never allowed to deliver them into the US.

HOLLOWAY: I remember when I was first out of college in the science area, and microscopy was big, and the microchannel plate was in a critical part of getting quality images out of the field ion microscope. So you were successful, obviously.

GOLDFARB: That's good to know! Because they would work in the dark and use a phosphor plate, take a picture behind it.

HOLLOWAY: Channel plates improved that immensely.

GOLDFARB: As soon as I saw the channel plate, I knew that was the place I had to go. When they came out with a second generation, they released the first generation, and that's what they do now: the newer microchannel plates, the newer stuff that the soldiers in combat wear, have incredible resolution. The ones that you can buy have good resolution now because if you've got three or four thousand dollars, you can go third generation, which is very, very nice compared to certainly the first and the second.

HOLLOWAY: Don't tell my wife that, she'll want one.

GOLDFARB: Marvelous tool, but expensive.
I had some names at Veeco that I wanted to tell you that I remembered, aside from Ed Braun and Al Nerken. George McDonough . George is a well-known name in vacuum. He worked at Veeco, came out of IBM, went to work for Veeco, later went back to IBM, and he is at Advanced Energy now. He's due to retire, if he hasn't already done so. But George is important because one of the things that happened is this company, CTI, came to Veeco with their idea for a cryopump. I was no longer in applications engineering at the time, and George was the one that they gave it to. John Harvel worked with George McDonough to evaluate the cryopump. The problem with the cryopump was that they didn't have charcoal, so in the UHV version, they started losing out because there was no hydrogen pumping. Well, they fixed that problem. And John Harvel from CTI fixed the problem himself by gluing charcoal to the copper shrouds, but he also cut the copper shroud by hand to make a cryopump. And George, when he eventually went to IBM in San Jose and was involved in magnetic disks (they had switched from spraying iron filings onto a big disk to thin film disks), and George was the project engineer to make the equipment work. He bought these cryopumps from CTI, one of the earliest applications in San Jose, which is also one of the earliest applications, period.

HOLLOWAY: What year was this, roughly?

GOLDFARB: I would say that's about 1973 or '4, something around there. That was in the '70s. So George became a very, very dear friend. He moved out to California, and eventually I moved out to California, and we met again when he was working out there.

HOLLOWAY: He was the one who was instrumental in developing cryopumps?

GOLDFARB: CTI of course did it, because they came up the Gifford-McMahon cycle [7]. John Harvel had the idea of making the cryo refrigerator into a pump, and then worked with Veeco into making a product out of it, evaluating it for actual use in the thin film business. Then later George bought a whole bunch of them when he was at IBM.
Herb Kott came out of Veeco also. Herb was a sales guy. Because we both were in sales at the time, we became friendly when we were back East as his territory was contiguous to mine. He eventually joined MRC and later came out to California about the time I left Veeco to go into the computer business. One of the guys that was working at Veeco went to work for his cousin, who started Cullinane Corporation. They were doing software, and he said, "We want you with us," and I said, "What do I know about that? What is software?" I swear, I didn't know. That was about 1969, 1970; I had no idea what software was. We were just, at Veeco, putting a computer into the company to take care of inventory. That was a bad mistake! They didn't run side by side with pencil and paper, they just switched right on over, and we ordered 10,000 O-rings when we should have ordered 10! We had a lot of O-rings! So Herb moved on and I worked in software for a while, on programs. Really, really interesting thing. This is back when IBM had the 360-30 and 360-60 computers. The old days, where you needed two hands to lift a disk that went into a huge disk drive. They didn't hold hardly any data, of course, and they occupied whole rooms, whole air-conditioned floors. They would use a small computer to feed the big computer, and they had one guy who would take orders from the computer. A little light would come on saying, "I need Disk Pack 3A," so he'd look a disk pack up, go to a cabinet, take it out. That was his job-taking orders from the computer!
So I sold software programs and really didn't like it. And I also didn't like New York. I was fed up with New York. Where I went to high school, I had to take a bus and a train-a bus and a trolley car, then a bus and a train-to go to high school. And I had to take a train and a bus and walk through Harlem to go to college, and I'd see these people on the train, and they were like 50 years old, and this is what they did all their lives. I knew I couldn't stand this, and I didn't want that to be me. So I knew I was going to leave; I just didn't know how and when. Then one February the snow fell, as it always does, and I couldn't find my car. So I sent my kids out to look for my car. We didn't have a house, we lived in an apartment project, so the car could be anywhere. They come back and they tell me where my car is, and I dig it out. I get it dug out and a snowplow comes down the street-buries it. You can imagine what I called that guy! So I uncovered it again, and then I tried to open up the door to go to work. Well the door wouldn't open, so I go back upstairs (I'm on the third floor) to get some warm water, bring it down, pour it on the lock. Still can't open the door. Look inside, it's not my car! Same model, same color-but not my car. So I dig out my real car again, making it the third time, and the last time in my entire life, and that is like '69 or '70, that is the last time I ever had a shovel, shoveling snow. That was one of the things I was never going to do again. Now if I want to see snow, I visit it. I have a rule: I visit snow; snow never visits me. I live in Las Vegas, by the way, and it does snow there once in a while, but not very deep, about a quarter of an inch. It's fun when it does.
So I left Veeco. Anybody else at Veeco worth remembering? Paul Hall, who I think most people know around here, Paul was at Veeco at the same time I was, and I don't remember which department I was managing at the time because I managed a whole lot of them, but Paul worked for me for maybe about six months, a year in the Veeco days. Much later, when I had my own company, Paul was working for PolyCold, and Paul put my company on as his rep, and so now I was working for Paul Hall. And then to close the loop, when I finally retired and sold my business, Exxus, Paul Hall bought Exxus. [Laughs] Strange loop, all coming back to Veeco.
I should also mention that Peter Clarke (who later started Sputtered Films), also worked with us at Veeco.
So after Veeco, I'm living and working in the East again, and I'd had my fill of what I thought was the Midwest. Turns out Dayton, Ohio is not the Midwest. It's pretty close to the East Coast. I'll tell you, if you're living there, it's the Midwest. The people-that's the Midwest. And for a New Yorker, you don't want to be there. So now I knew I was moving, and I wanted to go to California. Put out a lot of resumes, and Bill Hawe, who had also worked at Veeco, gave one to Hugh Smith. Hugh Smith was the founder and president of Temescal in Berkeley. I got a phone call from the secretary saying he is going to be in Manhattan, and would I meet him at his hotel? I did, brought my resume; half an hour later he says, "You've got a job. When can you start?" So I said, "Whoa! Oh, great. Can you send me a letter confirming it and tell me what I'm going to be making and stuff, and I'm there." Well he was on his way to Europe. As soon as he got back, I got a letter. Soon as I got that letter I packed up, left my family in New York, moved out to Berkeley. Few months later, they came out. Kids were in school, so you can't take the kids out of school.
So I went to work for Hugh Smith, and I was there for a little over a year. I liked the job a lot, and I liked Berkeley a lot, (but later I got stolen by UTI and moved to Sunnyvale). Hugh put me back in engineering, so I'm going back and forth between sales, marketing, and engineering. I didn't like it because he didn't give me a technician, and I had to work with my hands. I'm terrible with my hands. I tell people what to do. I really can't do stuff. My son is a motorcycle mechanic. I can't imagine how he does this. He takes engines apart and puts them back together again. I can use equipment, but I can't build it. And to build the kind of stuff I wanted to build I really needed fine finger control..

HOLLOWAY: It's a real expertise to do that.

GOLDFARB: Yes. You need good technicians, and there are some; I'm just not one of them. So I wanted back into marketing, and I pushed myself back into marketing and I met Inficon. One of the things that Hugh gave me as a job was to make our thin film monitor- Temescal had a quartz crystal monitor, it was an analogue monitor-and he said I want you to improve this thing, bring it up to snuff like everybody else's, and in the meantime to keep selling it. Well, the monitor we had was a piece of you-know-what; so I said, "I'm taking this thing out of the catalog. It's going." At Infocon at the time was Jerry Rohm and Larry Lu, the founders. They gave me one to evaluate, and I loved it. There were others on the market, including one that was now made by Veeco, when they bought the company Kronos. They also bought this company Andar/ITI, but I had left them by that time. So I look at the Kronos unit, as that was one of the first ones out. One of the problems I have is, I don't like authority so I just ignore it, so I just made the deal with Inficon to be their distributor. So I just went out and bought several units.
Turns out, Hugh ran a tight engineering ship, but didn't exercise much control on who was spending money which way. [Laughter] When he found out that I had tossed his device into the 13 can, and went with the Inficon-The way he found out about it was we had a marketing meeting with all of the group heads, all of the different people, the electron beam evaporator, the electron gun, all these guys that were separate entities, so there were outside people had come in; they had hired some group to do advertising, because they had no advertising in-house. I asked could I join them, they said, "Yeah, sure." So I sat down, listened to all the presentations on all the advertisements and programs that were going on, and then everybody left except the guys that made the presentations, the ones that were actually going to do the work from outside the company. And I sat there, and I said, "What are you guys going to be doing?" They said, "Well, we have to wait a year for the other guys, the other product managers, to see when they're going to go." I said, "So nothing is happening now?" "No." "So you came here and made this presentation, and you didn't walk away with an order." "No." "How much money does each one of these guys have to spend?" "Well, we just have a lump sum." I said, "So if I give you a job to do, you can do an advertisement for me?" "Yes." I said, "Okay, cool. You got an answer then." I drew the ad up, they put up. It's a picture of the Inficon QCM, and the headlines says, "The finest quartz crystal monitor available is being sold by Temescal, and we don't even make it." 
So when Hugh Smith called me into his office after that hit-and by the way, I won an award for the ad-Hugh said, "What's this?" So I told him. He said, "What about ours?" I said, "It's a piece of crap." "Okay, but do you have to say, 'And we don't even make it'? Everybody that knows that we have one knows ours is a piece of junk!" I said, "Yeah, it is." He goes, "Okay." So we sold a lot of them, and he was very happy about the results afterwards. 
Hugh and I always got along. Jerry Rohm, who was the president of Inficon at the time- I was there almost a year in Berkeley and had just gotten to California away from snow, and Inficon is in Syracuse, NY. -Jerry calls up and says, "We'd like you to come to work for us. We need a vice president of sales and marketing." Now I'm a lowly product manager, which is nothing. He said, "We'd like you to come in and take over our sales and marketing operation. We really like what you do." I thought about it about a microsecond, maybe a nanosecond, but brains don't work that fast, and I said, "Jerry, if you moved your company to California, I'd be with you in a second. But I would rather be on welfare in California than a vice president in Syracuse, New York." And it's true! [Laughter]
But I was stolen from Temescal, a job that I liked and a place that I liked. We had a problem and Hugh had picked up this old ENI quadrupole. ENI was a company that made analogue computers, but they also made this quadrupole. Mike Uthe and Bob Finnegan (not AVS' Bob Finnegan, but the Bob Finnegan who started Finnegan Associates that makes mass spectrometers, GCMS [8] and stuff like that), they worked together at UTI, and they were the project engineers on a quadrupole. So the two of them together came up with the quadrupole and sold it. I can't remember now who was marketing it for them in the vacuum business, but that was the machine. Well, Bob Finnegan went out on his own and made his own quadrupole, and he was selling that, I believe through Granville-Phillips. Mike Uthe went out on his own and started a company doing thin film bonding with ultrasonic bonders, but after several years he went back into the quadrupole business and came out with the UTI 100B.
Well Hugh Smith had bought this used ENI quad, and he knew my background, so he said, "I want you to evaluate a new FC-1800, his new electron beam evaporator: see what the background is, how good the cleanliness is, etc., evaluate it with the mass spec. So he gave me this mass spec to use. The earliest quadrupoles weren't stable and you could make them say whatever you wanted them to say. I had controls; there was a big rack mount, and too many controls. You could pretty much make whatever picture you wanted to make. And so I looked over the machine and tuned it the best I could. Long-term reproducibility was terrible, but still I managed something and I showed Hugh Smith what I found about his machine. And I said, "But I really don't have a lot of confidence in this. Can't we buy a Veeco GA4?" which is the machine I knew. He said, "No, no, no, no," and he called this guy from UTI I had never heard of, which was to me pretty strange because I'd only been out of the industry a short time and I hadn't heard of UTI making anything. But they're in California, and I guess somehow or other he found out about them.
And George Bunyard at the time was in engineering. He came up to see Hugh and installed a UTI quad on the machine, and he wanted me to look over his shoulder to make sure everything was good, which I did, and I was really impressed with the UTI quad. So I got to talking to George, and we did our work together on evaluating the FC-1800. Then, I guess about a month later, George asked me to join the company and be the Sales and Marketing Director; take over sales and marketing. The company was in Sunnyvale.

HOLLOWAY: What year was this now?

GOLDFARB: I'm still with Temescal, but it was like after I'd been there a little over a year. I really liked the quadrupole. That was my background, instrumentation, and to have the opportunity to take a small company and move it in my direction I thought was a great opportunity, so I accepted it. Gave me a job offer. When he brought me down the first time to see the company, he didn't want me to meet the owners of the company, because I looked a little different than the guy that's sitting across from you now. Not just younger, but you're talking 1970s, Berkeley; you can imagine what my hair looked like. I had a Fu Manchu moustache along with the Afro, I was dressed in leather pants and had a motorcycle-a little unusual for the people that worked at UTI. So he showed me around the plant, and then he took me out to lunch at the local Pizza Hut, and guess who is in the next booth? The founder and two of the board of directors. So that was it, the cover was blown, and they put up with me, and I had a ball there. I left UTI after about three or four years, not because I didn't like the company; I liked it a lot, and I liked the product a lot. But they wanted to make me vice president, and they told me when I move the sales up to some number, they wanted me to be the vice president. In the meantime, I had to do the job of the vice president off and on again because they didn't have a VP in Sales and Marketing. They had one in everything else, but they didn't have one in sale and marketing. When Dr. Bunyard became president, he was doing the sales and marketing, but definitely he wasn't a sales guy. So they wanted me to take that over, and I finally realized, after my whole career, which was over ten years by then, that the last thing I wanted to do was be the vice president or the president of a company with a whole bunch of people in it. I didn't like that job at all, so I told them that they really did need...because the company was now doing very well and they needed somebody in the vice president level, but it wasn't going to be me. I told him that. I called him up on a Saturday and drove over to his house on my motorcycle with my son on the back of my bike, and said "I've got to talk to you". He thought I was going to resign, but I said, "No, I'm not resigning, but you need to know that eventually we're going to part ways because you need to get a VP, and it's not going to be me. I'll help you hire one. But eventually we're going to want to do things differently, and I won't take orders from him, so I'm going to leave. But that's probably going to be another year or two down the line. In the meantime, let's get you hired with somebody else." And George may even show up at this show [9]. He retired eventually also.
So that's when I finally did leave Veeco, which was I think 1974, '75. My close friend, when I moved out to California, I renewed my acquaintance with Herb Kott who I had known from the Veeco days back on the East Coast; when you come out 3,000 miles away and you don't know anybody, you look at the people that you do know. And we got to be very, very friendly, very close. We would meet frequently at various places to have a glass of wine and commiserate over working for other people. Herb decided to leave MRC and go into his own business, out of the vacuum business. He said, "I don't want to hear 5-9s ever again [10]." [Chuckles] And he got the rights to a magazine. I don't know the name of the magazine, but you see it in hotel rooms. It's a small magazine, but it tells you everything that's going on in a local area; Who or Where or something like that.
When I left, I started a firm to do advertising and marketing-that's what I wanted to do. So I got a contract with, believe it or not, Veeco of course, which was nice of them to do, and they also wanted me to rep their line at least in the local territory instead of over the world. Because before I was setting up distribution all over the world, but now I'm in northern California, so they created the Northern California Territory, which nobody ever had before because we're local, but I was the only guy in there selling it, so I became their rep in northern California. I did their marketing for both divisions for about a year.
Then one day Herb says he doesn't want to do this magazine thing anymore. I said, "You know, I've got people giving me these lines that I never asked for because they found out I was in the field, and here's a line that's up your area." It was a materials line, and that's what he did with MRC. So he went out and jumped on it and started selling materials. We had a handshake, and the next thing you know we form a company, and the next thing you know it's ten years later. The problem is we got to be very successful. That was US Inc. It was US, then it was US Inc. We rotated being president-The whole thing is we get the business up big enough so that I can take a half a year off while you run it, and you can take a half a year off while I run it, that would be wonderful.
Well, it didn't work out that way. Every time we made more money and we get bigger and bigger and bigger, Herb wanted to get bigger yet, and we kind of got where, I felt anyway, where we had enough money coming in for four people, and I said, "That's as far as I want to go. Why work harder? We did what we said we were going to do. If we just keep this level up, we can live like this forever." Herb wanted to get to the next level.
Well in the meantime, we had come up with this US' GUN , which is one of the things that you asked about. We started out as manufacturer's reps. I stopped my consulting after a while. I was doing marketing consulting at 3M and for another company down south; technical consulting kind of stuff. But I gave that up and I gave the marketing stuff up to concentrate on the sales, which was bringing in big bucks. Well, we came across in the field a couple of guys who were doing some deposition in a small two-man company, and they were designing some new kind of microcircuit to do god knows what, and I saw their machine. I saw these little gadgets that I thought were quartz crystal monitors, and they said no, those are magnetron sputter sources. I said, "Really? I've never seen anything like that." Because what we had seen in the field, the Varian S Gun, Peter Clark's gun, which was a small one, and there were all these larger ones, four-inch planar magnetrons and the eight-inch. The ones that Temescal were making were the gigantic ones for coating glass. So I see these tiny little things about the size of a fist, and next thing I know, we have an agreement and the four of us are in business making a research magnetron with two-inch target, which went like crazy because the only thing that people could use before that would be Peter Clark's cylindrical magnetron [11] that required a cylindrical target-difficult to make, expensive-or the rather large and very expensive Varian guns, which we use for production, but they were also being used for research because that's all you have, so if you wanted something that's what you had to go with. Well, we were able to sell this gun for a couple of thousand dollars and make a huge profit on it,.
And I had this really great idea. Great idea was, since nobody had heard of us except locally-because we were a local sales company-and now we wanted to market something all over the country, if not the world, so how do we get our name out there? So our company is called US. Varian had this magnetron sputter source that they had the rights from Peter Clark. Peter Clark had the patent on the type of gun Varian was making, which was a variation on the cylindrical magnetron, and Varian called their gun the S Gun. Actually that was really the trademark owned by Peter Clark of Sputtered Films. So I said, "Hmm, this is going to be US's Gun." So I decided US's Gun-how to write it? So I wrote US apostrophe, which is a legal abbreviation for the word us's. So remember grammar in English, if you have a name that ends in 's', you can just put an apostrophe on it instead of putting a double 's'. So I said okay, this gun is going to be called the US' Gun, because it's going look to anybody when they look at it, it's going to be the US' Gun, which isn't that far away from the S Gun. So I called my lawyer, who put me onto a patent lawyer, and the patent lawyer said, "Does it do the same thing?" and I said, "Pretty much." He says, "Does the logo look like their logo?" "No." "Does the name sound like theirs?" "Not at all." He said, "Well what is their name?" I said, "Theirs is the S Gun." "What's your name?" "The US' Gun." "His eyes rolled back, and he looks at it, and he says, "Yeah, right." He said, "Two out of three, you're going to lose." I said, "But I'm going to argue it's not the S Gun, it's the US' Gun, which does not sound like S Gun." So he says, "Well, that's my advice to you." I said, "Thank you very much."
I came out with brochures; we had the brochures printed, big letters: US' Gun. And I carried the brochures to the American Vacuum Society national symposium. Carried packages with me, because we didn't have a booth, and I handed them out. After a while I get a tap on my shoulder, and it's Peter Clark [laughs], who remember, has the trademark. And he looks at me and he goes, "You've got a big pair of..." [Laughter] Well, I was hoping that Varian would get very upset about it and send me a letter threatening to sue if I didn't change the name. I had this all planned! Because I also found out from my lawyer what would happen. He said, "They will sue you. But you know, you don't really have to worry about that too much because they're a big company, you're a small guy." And what almost always happens is with somebody like Coca Cola, somebody puts a sign up using Coke, and they'll come in and say, "You got to stop using them." "Oh, but I've got all these brochures and I've got my own letterhead and everything else." They'll say, "Okay, if you'll agree to just stop using our trademarked name, we'll reprint your brochures with the new name. We'll give you new letterhead with your name." And I expected Varian to do that, so I knew I wasn't going to be out of pocket, but I wanted the publicity. What I wanted was that letter. Then, because I was in sales and marketing, I knew all the guys at all the magazines. I was going to call them up and say, "Look what these big bullies are doing to poor little us!" I found out later, because they never responded, nothing-no letter, no phone call, nothing.
But back in those days, Tom Cooper was an Auger guy, and he was high up at Varian, and Tom and I were very close friends. Well, Tom is in this meeting. I find out later-Tom didn't even tell me. Tom and I used to meet at a seafood restaurant a lot and have dinner together very briefly. So I said to Tom, "Did you ever hear anything about the US' Gun?" He says, "Yes." So I'm at a meeting. There are 12 people at this meeting, and we're all talking about this guy, and I said, "So I didn't hear anything!" He said, "Well, they decided not to make a fuss and give you free publicity." "Damn! They're smarter than I thought!" [Laughter] I thought I was smart, but I wasn't that smart! 
So Tom Cooper is another guy that I became very friendly with. How I met Tom, it had to do with Veeco days because we were selling the VG Auger, which was also a LEED/Auger. They had LEED, and they converted it to LEED/Auger using four grids, and they had these four-grid optics to do the retarding field, and also the first derivative. So that's how I got to know Tom, because he was doing the Varian about the same time. And I met Chuck Brysen when he was at HP.

HOLLOWAY: Oh yes, he and Mike Kelly.

GOLDFARB: That's right. But Chuck, he and Mike had been working on ESCA [12]. It was ESCA, then it became XPS. But Chuck had moved over into a different division and he was part of the development of the Hewlett Packard atomic clock; it was a cesium based clock. I was calling on him to sell him a mass spectrometer (it was a UTI mass spectrometer at the time), and he had somebody else's mass spec that really wasn't anywhere as good as the one I was trying to sell him. So that's how we met. When he and Mike Kelly formed Surface Science Labs, they decided to add, in addition to their ESCA work, Auger, and so they started to figure out which Auger to buy of the two competitors. Of course VG was also a competitor, but they were looking at the Varian and the PHI, and they decided to ask me to do a little study as to which would be best. I said, "You guys know a lot more about the technology than I do, so I'm not going to help you on that." But as far as which one is going to be accepted most, I did, and it wasn't very hard. I think the Varian might have been a better machine technically and the software might have been better, but everybody knew the PHI machine. They essentially owned the business and were taking more and more marketshare instead of less and less. Tom and I still go back, but at the time I recommended to them in a big, long piece-you know, it was my last marketing job I did for anybody-but I strongly recommended that they go with the PHI for commercial purposes, not for technical purposes. It was a fine instrument, and there's nothing wrong with the instrument. Just I think technically they would have gotten a little bit more out of the Varian. But when you go to somebody and you say, "We want to do your Auger work," you want not only the instrument but also the support that I had in the field and all of the people and all of the papers, and people knew Auger and PHI, it was almost a given. They came up with the CMA [13], from what I remember.

HOLLOWAY: Exactly, Paul Palmberg.

GOLDFARB: Yes, and I knew Paul also. So that's what happened on that. Chuck and I have been close for a very, very long time. We've been on similar committees here at the AVS.
So then my partner and I had a falling out. It was coming. It started out in the early '80s, and for a year or two our ideas of what we wanted to do with the company kept drifting further and further apart. And then I had a heart attack. A lot of it was stress, because I was still pretty athletic back in those days, playing racquetball very regularly, but I had a heart attack. I don't want to go into the whole scene, but when I was in bed with the heart attack, back home or in the hospital, that's when Herb decided that it would be a good idea if I sold him the company, and then figured out how to take the company by firing me! Which is interesting. You know, you learn a lot. Turns out that just owning half the shares in the company doesn't do anything for you; it just means you have half the shares. The Board of Directors controls the company. When we formed the company, I wasn't married and he was. I was seeing my wife-to-be, but we weren't married, so the Board of Directors was him, me, and his wife. We had a Board of Directors meeting, and it was two to one! So following that there was about four or five years of heavy litigation. In the meantime, I started Exxus from US.

HOLLOWAY: Still the marketing guy.

GOLDFARB: Yes, doing the same thing, but with different principals. Herb and I were very close friends. I really thought he was my brother, and quite surprised by what happened, and very hurt. He's gone. Herb passed away about two years ago. That was sad, too. We made up. He ended up with the company, but I won the lawsuit. So he was not too happy about it, and had to pay me money over a very, very long period of time and a lot of money. But I sent him a letter one day, after suing him again for things in the corporate books. But I got fed up with that and I sent him a letter. Before I sent the letter, I sent the letter to my lawyer, who had been with me for like five years or more by that time. The letter basically said, "Since we've broken up, the Berlin Wall has come down, the Arabs and the Jews have shaken hands on the White House lawn, and we're still fighting." [Laughs] I said, "So I want to pull back the rest of whatever is left of my lawsuit and drop everything. So let's get together and talk about it. If you want somebody like George McDonough," who was a friend of both of us, "to be with us, that's fine. But otherwise, let's meet." He said, "No, let's just meet." So we did. We had drinks at the Pruneyard in Campbell in California. He was very wary because he'd been pretty much taken over the coals after what he did, but he saw I was serious. So we shook hands. And he did also right by the books after. It was really interesting. Fighting, you do whatever you do to avoid it. But once we made up, he did the right thing. So we were never friends again, because we were really close, and after that you really can't be close again. But at least if one of us were at dinner at a nice restaurant and the other one walked in, we didn't get up and leave. We never went out together since, but obviously at shows and at meetings, and I was even invited to join him and the rest of the guys in his company at a table for dinner one night a couple of years back. But then he had some serious health problems and ended up with a very long-time problem, and I was calling him very regularly in his last year. So it was a sad time.
But in the meantime, my company, Exxus, continued to do nicely. And again, I didn't want it to grow to be huge, so we had maybe four or five people in the company and that was it. I picked up CTI, which was one of our major accounts back when it was US Inc. They eventually dropped US and they would go direct, because they already had a facility in Santa Clara, but I convinced them to go with me anyway, which they did, strangely enough. So that company was probably my single largest source of income as far as sales representation went, and we go back a long, long ways.

HOLLOWAY: What year did you actually form Exxus?

GOLDFARB: Exxus was formed in 1984 or '85. And then later I formed ExxusTech as part of the operation. I had Exxus, which I decided-Because I was doing consulting again, and training, as well as selling just because I like it. I was selling mass spectrometers, quadrupole RGAs, but there were many times when the standard instrument wasn't really what they needed, and companies that were outfitting big tools needed to interface with the tool. So I decided I'd put the whole package together. So for many, many companies, I can't even remember them all. IBM was a big customer. By big customer I mean I didn't just take the RGA and deliver it to them and teach them how to use it. I put it into a package to do the sampling, because sputtering was a big sampling thing; you couldn't use these things directly obviously because of the pressure. And then tied it into the tool itself. And then went on to cluster tools. Some of my biggest accounts were in the disc business, companies like Seagate, Read-Rite etc., Of course, Read-Rite in the head business. But all the disc companies. I sold multi-millions of dollars worth of systems. For example, Seagate, when they opened up their production facility in Singapore, I went over there with tons of all the stuff that I had sold and installed it on three machines. Each machine, they called this the Mint, and they were gigantic machines, you couldn't fit them anywhere in this room. They were huge, went on for practically miles. Only maybe a foot, foot and a half wide, six feet tall, but the length of a basketball court. Pallet load of discs in one end, and then pallet load of coated discs out of the other end. So I ended up consulting for IBM and for Seagate and for Read/Rite on process as well as on mass spectrometry stuff, so whenever they had a vacuum system that wasn't doing what it was supposed to, and of course when the thin film comes out wrong, they always blame the vacuum, so IBM called all the time, and there was a lot of interesting stuff that I found out as a result of doing the work.

HOLLOWAY: So you did this in parallel with Exxus?

GOLDFARB: I did that at ExxusTech separate from Exxus, because there I had to incorporate. So now I'm handing hardware and doing actual physical stuff instead of just saying, "I represent this thing and you buy this, and I never ever touch it or see it. You place the order with them and all I get is a check from the manufacturer." Here, I'm actually taking possession and I'm making deliverables and I'm installing it on equipment, so I had to be incorporated for legal protection. And I had to be incorporated just for companies to actually permit me to work there. If you walk into a company and you're going to touch something, if you get hurt, you have to have your own insurance. So that's why I incorporated. So I have these two companies: Exxus, which was a strictly sales operation, and ExxusTech, which was primarily consulting and hardware sales, and the hardware sales was almost solely the mass spectrometer business. But that did a lot of good for me financially.
So that was a lot of fun. I did that until my wife said, "We're retiring, Stan!" [Laughter] That was about nine years ago, about 2000. And the thing that really prompted it was her father had passed away. She was very close to her father. They lived in Southern California. When he passed away, suddenly her life changed. By that time, you know, I'm 75 now, so we're talking about roughly 65 years old. One of the other reasons I had separated Exxus and ExxusTech was I knew ExxusTech, even though I stopped physically making quadrupole systems and installing them, I would continue to do training and some consulting, and I didn't really have to have a place to do that from. So I wanted to separate that, and you can't sell that-who am I going to sell that to, right? It's just me! But I could sell the other business, which is ongoing manufacturer's rep business, and so I did that, and I kept the ExxusTech. And one day I came home and there was this sign on my house, it said, "Sold", and a note from my wife that said, "We're in Las Vegas. The cats are with us. Here's the address." [Laughter]
So retirement was not fun. I was depressed. Vegas was nice. I mean we had a marvelous house, as you can imagine; selling a really nice house anywhere in California and then moving to Las Vegas back in 2000, or in that timeframe, where prices were about one-third the prices in California. So I was able to sell a really nice house in California for essentially a mansion in Las Vegas. It was interesting, the price of the house in Vegas went zooming up, and of course in the past three or four years went zooming back down. It's now worth about what I paid for it ten years ago. Doesn't matter because I'm dying here-I'm never, ever going to move, so what happens to the value doesn't matter. But the house is gorgeous. It's on a lake. Everybody else there has these electric boats because they don't allow you to have gasoline engines. It's a man-made lake. So I've got a kayak rather than stupid electric boats where you sit in, you wear a cap, and you're a yacht. So I get some exercise that way. We've got two kayaks. But, even with the pool table that I insisted on having, doing nothing, I became depressed. I mean who am I going to consult for in Las Vegas? What do I know that they need?
I did find Bechtel, and they hired me for a very short time. A left-over part of the program just north of Vegas where they used to blow up pieces of the ground. Bechtel was involved then, so I knew some people. But they didn't have anything ongoing, and they didn't have any money to continue it, so that didn't work out. And I just got more and more depressed, until I got a phone call from John Brooks of MDC. So there's another one. John Brooks used to work for me back in Veeco days. That's interesting! Because you know, I left Veeco in roughly 1970 or 1969, and here it is 2000. John worked for me at Exxus for a short period of time, and ended up at MDC. So John calls me, and he says, "Stan, I've got this phone call from a professor at UNLV [14], and he has been buying flanges and stuff because he's building some vacuum things, and he keeps asking me questions, and I've sort of run out of answers. So I told him that I couldn't help him anymore, but I have a friend (meaning me) who just moved out to Las Vegas, and he could probably help you. Would you like for me to have him call you?" He said, "Please! Oh, please." Best call I ever got. So I got his name and called him, and he is a professor I have now been working with for about seven or eight years.
I went there, and what their problem was, they had this thing they called the Nevada Shocker. It's a pulse power machine. Something along the lines that Woody Weed has down at Sandia, the Z pulse machine. Teeny-tiny compared to the Z machine, but still pretty big. It is a cylinder about as long as the table that we're sitting at, so something like six or eight feet, three feet in diameter roughly. At one end was a Marx bank [15], and at the other end they would dump the high-energy electrons, something on the order of maybe half a million volts. I don't remember how many amperes, but it was all happening in like 20 or 30 nanoseconds. Into a little piece of plastic. And they wanted to have this inside of a vacuum chamber where they could do some diagnostics. So they were building the end where the things were all happening, and I was looking at this piece of cold rolled steel that they were welding stainless steel flanges onto to make a chamber. So I looked at it and I said, "Okay, what pressure do you need?" They said something like ten microns or something like that. Oh, okay, that's fine. But why are they using Conflat flanges? Well, they tell me that's the best flanges to use. Okay. "Make sure that you've got somebody to do all the proper"-I said, "Make sure you weld around the inside. You have to do an inside weld." He said, "Oh yeah, we know, we're going to do an inside weld, and an outside weld." [Laughs] So I knew, okay, good, you need me! [Laughter] Right away, I felt needed. Then I said, "So what are you going to be pumping this thing with?" He said, "Ten millitorr, maybe we want to get down to a millitorr so we have a diffusion pump and a mechanical pump." I said, "Oh, that will do. Do you have one already?" He said yes.
By the way, the end station is a steel cylinder also about three feet in diameter, but it's only about three or four, maybe six inches deep, and then it's sort of bulb-ish at the end, like an end cap. So it's not a huge volume, but it's a sizeable volume. The ports are all 2.75-inch Conflat,. And he shows me the pumping system. Well, a 1497 Welch 15 CFM pump [16]. Okay that's good, but it didn't work. So the students who were going to take them apart and put them back together again, have never seen or heard of that thing before. Ahhh! "Well, what about the diffusion pump?" You wouldn't believe it. He takes me over to this little system that consists of a diffusion pump and a bunch of brass pipes and some valves. I look at that and I recognize it immediately. It's the guts from a Veeco leak detector! A two-inch diffusion pump, air cooled of course, and internal baffles. I said, "I don't think so. We're not going to get there with this." He said, "What do you need?" I said, "Okay, I'll be coming in." So for about a year I came in whenever they called me, and I came in on Fridays.
I used to fly to San Jose, trying to keep my business up, I would do that twice a month; then once a month. Things slowed down after a year, and I got tired of getting on an airplane. So I finally said to the professor, "Look, I still don't know this area very well. Where is there a place I can rent an office that's in between where I live and where the University is? I don't need anything big. I only need an office, a desk, and I don't even need a secretary. I just need one room. It should be an office that has a secretary outside that answers the telephone for several offices. Where should I look?" And he said, "Hm, how big an office do you need? How much space do you need?" Well I ended up with a desk in the lab. I had my own little space, and had a desk, and that's my desk. It still is there.
Then he brings me over some papers and he says, "You've got to sign this." I said, "What's this?" He said, "Well, if you want to keep coming over here, there's paperwork." So I sign the paper. Next thing I know I got a check, so he put me on the payroll! So I am an actual employee and have been of UNLV now for, I don't know, seven, eight years. Which is nice. They took my computer because they got this T1 line and it's controlled, so if I want to plug into it...they don't have wireless, they have to have my numbers so that when I connect to it, it has my IP address. So they did that for me. I got a parking spot, it was really great.
I got the machine up and running. They didn't have any money because they didn't expect that they would have to spend anything-they had everything right there, but I told them it wasn't going to work; we needed some other stuff. So I managed to get a turbo-pump donated, and had everything all set up. Had a mechanical pump donated, so we're cool. Then afterwards, they tell me that this machine, when it fires, is going to jump. Now if you look at it, ten people can't lift it-it's a big huge hunk of steel! And they tell me it's going to jump, and I said, "Why would it do that?" Then I remembered: a whole bunch of current. Learned about that when I was working for the Air Force. So I said, "How high?" They said, "We really don't know. But what did they tell you it's probably going to do." He said, "Couple of inches?" So, great. So this is my turbo pump, it's going to jump up like this [laughter]. So okay, now we have to go out and get bellows,and when it jumps, it would stretch the bellows. We can't have the turbo jumping.
Then the turbo crashes, and they didn't have any money to fix it. So I gave them a turbo. That doesn't work. So I call up CTI. They donated a cryopump and compressor. In fact, at this point in time we have three CTI cryopumps in my lab, what I call my lab, doing different things. We built another system with a turbo, all donated.

HOLLOWAY: By your connections.

GOLDFARB: Yes. I called up Les Hughes at Intevac, and I said, "I've got a cryopump and I need a compressor. Do you have any compressors?" He says, "You called at just the perfect time, and I have two compressors that, just today, I just gave instructions to put them out on the dock. They're going to be picked up and sold as scrap." I said, "When did you tell them to do this?" "This morning." "Could you just run out there..." [Laughter]

HOLLOWAY: Put a "sold" sign on them! [Laughter]

GOLDFARB: So he takes the two compressors, ships them over to some friends of mine at CTI in Santa Clara, who works them over; one was really in bad shape but the other was in great shape. Cleaned it up, sent it out to me, so now we've got that compressor. And it's been like that. A guy from Novellus, Ron Powell, who's done a lot of work for AVS, and he was big in the Northern California chapter. He worked for Varian before Varian was acquired by Novellus. He worked in their vacuum division and he was the acting Director of R&D. So he calls me up, and he says, "Stan, we have these turbo pumps that we don't need and we want to donate. You know anybody interested" I said "tell me about it". "We have six Osaka turbos, Maglev chemical series, something like six- or eight-inch diameter inlet, complete with power supply and everything to go with them, and they've never been used." I said, "So why do you want to give them away?" He said, "Well, the company switched from this pump to a different brand pump and we can't use these, so these six were to go on a cluster tool, one pump on each chamber of a cluster tool. But we can't use them; we have to use the new pump. So we don't know what to do with these. They're still in the box." I said, "Here's my address." They even paid for the shipping! And those pumps are like $20 grand a piece, so that's about $100,000 or $120,000 worth of pumps. I'm using one of them right now. We're building a new sputtering system and that's going to be the pump that's on the sputtering system. I designed the sputtering system, got all the various components for it: gauges, chamber, valves, a power supply-everything donated.

HOLLOWAY: You're a valuable guy to have around!

GOLDFARB: That's why they like me.

HOLLOWAY: Sounds like you're having fun, though.

GOLDFARB: I'm having a ball. I designed a tabletop sputtering system a couple of years ago, and it became the tool that a young Indian lady did her work for a master's thesis on. We built another UHV system. This goes back to one of the first jobs, and it's still being used every day. It's a UHV system that is now cryopumped-it used to be turbo; it's now cryopumped-it gets into the low 10-9 Torr range without bake out, and it's a fairly large chamber, about 30 liters and studded with all kinds of stuff on it. An electron beam irradiates a crystal at superconducting temperatures, something on the order of 9 degrees Kelvin. We're looking at the electrons that come back, and we've got a position sensitive microchannel plate that we bought from Germany. It's a very special device, being able to tell one electron from another electron just a couple of microseconds apart, hitting the same place, and over a pretty wide area. There was nothing like that at the time, so we bought it from Germany. But the system is my system, newly designed. I've got everything on it that we need, and I designed all the stuff. We had Mike Ackeret from Transfer Engineering I called him in because we needed to have some specialized stuff built on the transfers. He did, and gave us a great price. We had to pay for it because it was special design; it wasn't stuff lying around.
So that system has been operating continuously. One of the first students that used it was, again, an Indian student, Anoop George. He did his Masters work on it. He was one of the most brilliant students that I worked with, and invited me when he was defending his thesis. I must say, I went home that day so proud.

HOLLOWAY: It's like being a father.

GOLDFARB: Yes. This is what it was all about! I could sit home and shoot pool and go out on my kayak, but helping this kid, being really instrumental, that was such a proud day. And I did several others after that, but he was my first. That was really a wonderful feeling.
So we now have a tabletop sputtering system, we've got the shocker, we've got the UHV system that's doing surface work at super cryogenic temperatures. I of course lecture on vacuum and mass spectrometry and leak detection. We've got about three RGAs; two of them donated, one we had to buy. We now have a whole bunch of extra equipment because the school here in Livermore that used to teach vacuum technology, years ago the Northern California Chapter helped fund this school. It was called Chabot and then changed names [17]. But we built this thing up. MDC contributed $100,000; Mike Del Costello signed a check for the $100 grand. When he handed me that check I was thrilled, and that helped build the classroom. We got a lot of equipment donated, and over the years a lot of the guys from the Northern California Chapter and from Lawrence Livermore taught those classes.
But then with the economy doing what it's doing, they closed the program down. There was very little requirement for a vacuum technology class. So this year they closed it down, and I got a phone call saying, "You want to pick up any spare stuff?" Yep! You bet we do! I went to Livermore and took pictures, told them exactly what I wanted, and then actually took home a bunch of other stuff when I was there. But the big systems I described, I put a tag on. Two of the UNLV professors flew down, rented a truck, went out there, pulled the stuff out, and drove it all the way back. Now I'm busy working with several of the students reconditioning them and getting them up to snuff. We'll have the new sputtering system working probably when I get back from this meeting.
So it's been...This is what I call a nice way to retire.

HOLLOWAY: Tell me about your recollections of early interactions with the people in AVS.

GOLDFARB: Of course I've been with AVS since my Veeco days, but then only as an attendee. But when I moved out to California, I got a phone call from Bill Brunner. I think I had just left UTI, so that must have been somewhere in the 1972, 3, or 4 timeframe, something like that. So Bill called me. I had met Bill while I was at Veeco. Bill had me come out and do a leak detection class for Lawrence Livermore Lab. Of course I was Training Director at Veeco for some time. So he invited me to come out, and Veeco sent me out very happily because we had a bunch of stuff out there and it was good for us. So I did the course for Bill, and that's how we met. Then when I moved to California, we continued because I was now selling to Lawrence Livermore Lab, and that's where he was. I knew Howard Patton too, of course. Also, Tom Beat. Woody Weed came out of that same operation and eventually moved to New Mexico.
Anyway, so Bill calls, and he says, "Stan, I want to make a decision. I've been sort of like the head of the Northern California Chapter, and we have meetings every once in a while and we get five or ten people to come to the meetings. I'm just thinking we ought to dissolve the chapter, or do something to give it some energy. What do you think?" I said, "What do you mean dissolve the chapter! By all means, let's resuscitate it." He says, "Okay. Can you get a bunch of people? We'll have a meeting and talk about it." So that's one of the things I did write down; some of the people that were at that first meeting, and that should be right up at the top. There we go. Bill Brunner. John Coburn from IBM, and he's still doing his thing with the Northern California Chapter, although he's retired from IBM. Paul Hall. Donna Bakale. Howard Patton. And me. And possibly Jim Burden, who used to work for me at UTI. I'm not sure if he was there or not, but I needed permission to use their conference room after hours-We met at UTI. Even though I didn't work there anymore, I was still representing them, and of course very tight with the people, so they let me use the conference room.
So we met in Sunnyvale at UTI, and we sat around a big table like this with a board, talking about what are we going to do. We decided that we were going to turn it into a real chapter, and the kickoff was going to be that we were going to have a technical meeting. What was it going to be on? Well, since I was now selling, I had this wonderful idea to help me and help everybody else all at the same time. I said, "Okay, how about pumps? We have these newfangled things on the market, turbo pumps, brand new on the market, cryopumps, they've been on for a couple of years but they're still new, and of course we had diffusion pumps and ion pumps. What if we have a roundtable?" They said, "That sounds like a great idea." To me, because I was selling CTI, it's a great idea. So I said, "I'll do it, I'll put it together." And it became the famous Battle of the Pumps. Howard Patton was there. Remember, before that, they were having meetings where they were getting five people; ten people would be a huge thing. So I knew I was going to get more people, and I took a room at the Hyatt House in Palo Alto on the west side of the main street, and it was a nice-sized conference room. But we overflowed it.

HOLLOWAY: How many people?

GOLDFARB: Over 200. It was amazing! Packed standing room; people in the hall. If the Fire Marshal ever came he would have kicked us out. But it was great. Here's what I remember. I had John Peterson from CTI, and I promoted it like it was a boxing ring. It was very unusual for the AVS! For me it was, "Here's why mine is better than yours." So I set it up as a boxing ring. Again, my sales and marketing thing and advertising; so I did the brochure, and if you looked at it, you saw a boxing ring, the ropes. In one corner, John-Jack Frost-Peterson from CTI. Al-The Hummer-Schwalje. Mal Schwalje worked for Leybold, so he was the guy with turbos. So we had Jack Frost. Johan-Ion Man-DeRijke; Ion Man because he was with ion pumps. The diffusion pump guy, I didn't know him before and I know he died soon after so I never did remember his name, but he was from CVC, and they were doing diffusion pumps. I can't remember the moniker I gave him. But those were the four corners. It went out in the mail, and if you wanted to go, you got a ticket. I used to go to St. Nicholas Arena in New York to watch boxing, so you got a little ticket, it would have a serial number on it, and that would be your pass to get in. So we did the whole thing up as if it was a boxing match. It was totally successful.
Of course, what I was interested in was promoting cryopumps. But one of the most interesting parts of the meeting was when Howard Patton got up after Mal Schwalje and did a number on turbo pumps. Turbo pumps, again, were pretty new back in those days, and they weren't that reliable.

HOLLOWAY: Weren't that reliable and noisy.

GOLDFARB: Howard bought a whole bunch of turbo pumps, and after Mal Schwalje finished his talk and we had questions, Patton got up and reamed this poor guy. I had to step in just to protect him! You know Howard, he can be really bad. He explained how these things would continuously crash, and when were they going to get-Of course now things are very much better. We were using the early turbos back in my Veeco job. Before I left them, they had just started a specials group, which was a big mistake. Instead of standard stuff, they decided to do specials. It was a policy of Veeco, which was a good one, "No specials." So the bell jar evaporator, if somebody wanted a feed-through here and a feed-through there, Veeco would have said no. Our standard base plate has 15 feed-throughs, and here's where they are. You can put whatever you want in them, but we ain't moving anything." That same base plate is coming off the line every single time. So they decided to capture the segment of the market that they weren't into, the specials, and they put me in charge of it. We had a lot of fun doing specials, but that really is a difficult job.
One of the things I still remember, we also changed managers at the same time. I was building this evaporator with three electron beam guns, chrome on silicon, chrome, copper, gold for contacts via electron beam deposition. George McDonough had developed at Veeco, instead of using the Temescal 270 degree magnetic e-beam, he had this Pierce gun that focused a beam of electrons from a small source, this little cylinder, onto a distant spot, so you completely decoupled the gun from the material you were evaporating. I had to put three of those in at the same time, and then using old-style controls, the quartz crystal monitors that we made, control the chrome, then bleed in the copper, then stop the chrome, continue with the copper, bleed in the gold, stop the copper, then stop gold. This had to work 50 times in sequence before we shipped it, without a failure. It took forever. Something was always failing. Then I had to install it at Texas Instruments in Dallas. That was not a lot of fun.

HOLLOWAY: What happened after the Battle of the Pumps?

GOLDFARB: That went over so well, we signed up lots of people, local people, and we did more advertising and got more people, and the chapter grew. One of the other NCCAVS programs that I was responsible for was when plasma etching started to become a big thing. Before that you'd take silicon, dip it in HF [hydrofluoric acid]. So that was a wet processes and line widths were now too small-you couldn't do that anymore. Applied Materials started doing a lot of work on plasma and plasma etch. But nobody really understood the chemistry. I decided what we needed was a meeting on plasma etch. John Coburn was one of the speakers because John was one of the experts in the field. We got speakers from all over the country, and the meeting was held at the Italian Gardens in San Jose, which is where we were holding many of our meetings. That one also became famous because the brochure that we put out had a picture of a wizard-full costume.

HOLLOWAY: Black magic, in other words.

GOLDFARB: Yes, because that's what it was. When you opened up the brochure to see who were going to be the speakers and where it was going to be, there was this cauldron with fire underneath it, "Double, double, toil and trouble," with little bats and such-it's all witchcraft, and all the people were going to be talking about the black magic of plasma etching. That brochure got a lot of attention!
And I got a lot of attention personally. The same guy that gave me those pumps from Novellus [Ron Powell], he was moderating, he had to put the technical stuff together and do the moderating. He gave me the job of promotion. Well, what I didn't tell him was that I was going to rent, and did, a wizard costume, full with the white beard. The kitchen was over here and the speakers were over here. So I got a hold of the first speaker, a guy from Applied Materials, and he's talking about some of the dangers and the hazards of handling some of that stuff, and I said, "I need to know when would be a good time to interrupt you." He said, "What do you mean?" I said, "Well, I don't want to ruin your talk, but I want to come in and take the microphone away from you, then I'll talk for a minute or thirty seconds and then I'll give it back to you. So it's going to be a disruption, and I don't want to interrupt the flow of your talk. When would be a good time?" He said, "What do you want to do that for?" I said, "I really don't want to tell you, but I want to interrupt you, so you just tell me when." He said "the first slide I put on is nothing, just an introductory slide. When I put the first slide on, if you walk out then, you won't bother me at all."
So I went in the kitchen and told nobody, and I put on the costume. And I had this gnarled walking stick, and I had a crystal ball that my wife had given me because I was in sales; so I had this crystal ball. So I stormed out in disguise-you didn't know it was me because I was in full disguise. So I pushed open the door, stormed out on stage, grabbed the microphone from this guy. And everybody is stunned. Then I was reading on my sleeve my little speech, which basically had to do with how could you get off by having a big meeting on this magical plasma kind of stuff and not invite me to be one of the speakers. I am going to turn all of your etching gases into refrigerants, which of course they are. Then I stormed off. Well, as I stormed off the stage and gave the mike back. My friend from Novellus [Ron Powell], he was still with Varian at the time, is in the front row because he's the moderator and he put the whole thing together. He's a wonderful person, but he's a joker, he loves practical jokes and we always had fun with each other. But he is also a little old lady. He was so nervous about having this program run absolutely perfect-He was calling up everybody, "You're job is to make sure that we have..." He'd be calling up, "Did you get this? Do you have that?" So I knew he was just a nervous wreck, and he's sitting there in the chair while I'm doing this, and I keep looking over at him, and he's getting lower and lower and lower on the chair. By the time I got finished, half the audience knew who it was already because my voice is unusual, so they knew my voice, and they knew who else would do this? Half the audience didn't know me though but of course he did. As I'm walking by him, he's like this, and I can hear, "Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god." [Laughter]
He got even with me later though, because I would call on Varian and he was their director. I walk into the building and one day I'm in the lobby waiting for him. The receptionist keeps looking over at me. There was nobody else in the room. She was on the phone and doing her stuff; then I see surreptitiously she keeps looks over at me with a really strange expression. I thought what's going on? Ron comes down and he walks me back. As we're walking back, I said, "You know, your secretary is a little weird. She keeps looking at me. I don't know what it is, but it's not like she wants a date! She's just like looking like I'll jump up and rape her or something. What's going on with her?" He says, "I told her to watch this guy in the lobby because he steals stuff. I said he's a really nice guy and I want to talk to him, but he's a kleptomaniac and he's liable to just walk off with the chairs. Keep an eye on him." [Laughter]

HOLLOWAY: We've covered a lot of territory, and it's 7:30. You said at the beginning that you had a 7:30 appointment. So I want to thank you very much for sharing all your stories with me tonight. It was really a pleasure. Thanks very much, Stan.

GOLDFARB: My pleasure. Thank you for doing this. I appreciate it.

1. rods and cones are the optical sensors in the eye; rods are more sensitive to red and dim light.
2. AMA : the Air Force's Material Agency (I think it's now Air Force Materiel Command). They are in charge of logistics and maintenance.
3. Throughout the interview, there are references to a number of companies which were involved in the business of vacuum, as equipment manufacturers or suppliers, and as users of vacuum and processing equipment. A number of these were active participants in the AVS activities over the years, including as exhibitors at the annual symposia of both AVS and its Chapters. Over the years, many of these have changed names, or merged with other companies. Rather than interrupt the text with references for individual companies, below is a list of the full names of the companies.
CEC Corporation; Veeco Instruments Inc.; Bendix Corporation; Advanced Energy Industries; CTI-Cryogenics; now part of Helix Technology Corp.; MRC; Materials Research Corporation; now part of Praxair, Inc.; Polycold Systems; now part of Helix Technology Corp., which is owned by Brooks Automation, Inc.; Sputtered Films Inc.; now part of Tegal Corp.; Airco-Temescal became a division of Edwards Vacuum and was recently purchased by Ferrotec Corp.; UTI Instruments Company became part of Keithley Instruments Inc. in 1995; Inficon became part of Leybold-Heraeus as Leybold-Inficon; Kronos introduced the first digital quartz crystal monitor; became part of Sycon Instruments.; ENI; became a division of MKS; EAI; Electronics Associates Inc.; Granville-Phillips; now part of Helix Technology Corp., which is owned by Brooks Automation, Inc.; Varian Associates is now Varian, Inc.; HP; Hewlett-Packard Company; Vacuum Generators; now VG Scienta; PHI; Physical Electronics Inc. was taken over by Perkin-Elmer Corp.; Seagate Technology; Read-Rite Corp.; Bechtel Corp.; MDC Vacuum Products, LLC.; Intevac Inc.; a spin-off from Varian Associates in 1991; Novellus Systems Inc. was founded in 1984; Leybold Vacuum Vacuum Products Inc.; Applied Materials Inc. was founded in 1967.
4. Veeco HQ is in Plainview, New York.
5. The AVS 49th International Symposium, Denver, 2002. The winner of the Nerken Award was David J. Harra.
6. Dr. Rudolf G. Buser was Director of the Night Vision and Electronic Sensors Directorate (NVESD).
7. The Gifford-McMahon Refrigeration Scheme uses a gas compressor operating near room temperature and a cryogenic expansion cylinder (cold head).
8. Gas Chromatograph Mass Spectrometer.
9. The 56th AVS International Symposium and Exhibit was held in San Jose, CA in 2009.
10. 99.999% accuracy
11. NB the nomenclature for magnetron sputtering systems can be confusing. The "cylindrical magnetron" which was developed by John Thornton used cylindrical targets; either a central "post" or a hollow cylinder, with the anode at either end. In Peter Clarke's design the central anode was at the centre of the target. The US-Gun used the planar magnetron geometry with a small circular disk target with a larger anode; i.e. the target was a "cylinder" because it was circular and was 1/8 or 1/4 inch thick. 
12. Electron Spectroscopy for Chemical Analysis; X-ray Photo-electron Spectroscopy.
13. Cylindrical Mirror Analyzer
14. University of Nevada-Las Vegas
15. A circuit, using a bank of capacitors, first described by Erwin Otto Marx in 1924, to generate short, high energy electrical pulse 
16. Pumping speed in Cubic Feet per Minute.
17. Chabot College was founded in 1961 in Hayward, CA. Las Positas College was located in Livermore, CA, but was later absorbed into Chabot College. The vacuum lab discussed here was at the Livermore location.


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